Adding Ballast to Daggerboard

No. See post #18.

 

That post contains something that appears to be only an assumption. The centrcase in the OP's boat has a 1/4" ply web at the aft end and is probably secured through the bulkhead at the front. To damage the case would require the failure of the tension side of the web and the compression side of the web, or at least fastening failure, plus similar failure at the front end.

What sort of load on the centreboard is going to create enough load to damage that structure? This boat doesn't seem to have been sailed hard for long. There are GP14s of similar design and construction that have been hammered in open sea racing off England for years and they don't seem to suffer centreboard case failure; in fact massive centreboard case failure in dinghies is all but unheard of AFAIK.

 

I suspect you are missing the intended duty cycle bit.

 

I suspect you're assuming wrongly. I haven't done the calcs but I know that good dinghy centreboard cases are intended to be highly loaded for many years of duty cycles, even under the sideforce of a rig when the crew is hiking hard in 20 knots.

The OP's boat is similar to a GP14, which are raced hard in England and well known for being tough. The side loads sustained by a hard-raced boat with the rig loading up against the pressure of 27 stone of hard-hiking sailors at speed are the normal suspect in the rare occasions when a CB snaps, so the GP's board and case are regularly harder worked than a ballasted CB sailing with one cruisy guy.






The GP14's case is different but if anything it looks less tough than the OP's boat's, because it doesn't secure to the bulkhead. So the OP's cb case doesn't seem at all weak.

Similarly, high-performance skiffs and dinghies down here were often built of 4mm ply, not the 12mm ply of the OP's boat., and they were very heavily loaded by crews hanging out and off traps and sailing at high speed. The 20ft Sharpie was made of just 4mm ply and it's traditionally raced in very rough stuff, goes faster than a 505, and yet the centreboard case stays in.


Unless the OP's boat is poorly built or designed, and it certainly doesn't look like that, the CB case should hold up well.

 

I agree that adding ballast to the OP's daggerboard isn't likely to over stress the trunk, but a daggerboard won't have the same dynamic forces in its trunk as a centerboard. Primarily, the proposed ballast will put an added downward force with no additional lateral forces to the direction of gravity. However, at a heel, that downward force will translate into lateral forces in relationship to the hull, but only a part of the ballast weight proportional to the angle of heel. The lateral forces of wind and crew hiking shouldn't change because the daggerboard weighs more.

I also think the dinghy was designed to perform without ballast and dinghies have proven to be quite seaworthy as they are. In addition, a daggerboard, even a light one, can be hard enough to handle while sailing. Putting excessive weight on it would make a quick adjustment to depth very difficult when the sailor is also holding the tiller and adjusting the sheet on a new tack.

If you still want to add extra ballast for a stiffer sail and improve the righting moment, consider adding a little lead to either side of the trunk, or bolt a shallow keel of steel to the bottom. You'll get a little less lateral slippage, better directional tracking, but coming about may take a little more effort.

-Will (not a naval architect, just an artist who has sailed a dinghy or two)

 

Hey Will Gilmore,

Adding ballast to both sides of the dagger board trunk as you suggest, is exactly what Mr. Arch Davis suggested, who is the designer of the Ace 14. Well, he did also say as long as I'm the only one on board in very strong winds. However, he also suggested the ballast should be removeable if I were to bring another sailor onboard.

Right now I'm in the process of making a casting mold for lead bars (4) at the size of 1.75"x3.5"x12", which will be velcroed to both port and starboard sides of the dagger board trunk. This way they can be easily removed if someone else will be sailing with me. Of course, if the winds on the lake, or sea, that day aren't going to exceed more than 8-10 MPH, I could probably leave the ballast bars in the truck.

 

Yes, I read that earlier post. I was agreeing, because that's how the ballast is on my Mariner 19, only they are glassed on place. I have been contemplating adding a slim steel keel, about an inch to an inch and a half to the bottom because I want to take my boat into blue water without as much worry of a knockdown where there is less immediate aid. Since the Mariner only displaces about 3000 pounds and her ballast, including the cast iron cb, is around 400 pounds, I don't think I would want the keel to weight more than an extra 150 pounds (basically an extra passenger). With a keel that runs full length, it wouldn't change the trailering or beach-ability of the boat over-all.

-Will

 

Well Will, You won't get any argument from me. I'm certainly no sailboat designer, but I genuinely believe that a little extra ballast at the end of a keel can only help if one wants to heel less in heavy winds. I personally think you will be at an advantage with the proposed modification you're talking about. Like I said, I ain't no nautical engineer, but I do know a little bit about basic physics and see no reason why a little extra ballast can't be employed for many existing designs. But heck, that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

I'd like to tell you what happened to me about 2 years ago with my Catalina 22 Sport, which I have since sold. It had a total displacement of 2,500 lbs., and a retractable keel of 600 lbs. It was just too much boat for me to set up every time I wanted to go out on the water. I could raise the mast myself, but still with all the other rigging set up, the time factor of 1.5 hours before just getting in the water, and then another 1.5 hours of breaking her down and getting her set on the trailer for the ride home was way too time consuming. That's why I've settled in on this Ace 14. I can literally set her up and be ready to sail in less than 30 minutes.

Anyway, back to my story. I was sailing down the main channel of the Indian River in Vero Beach FL. This was not the best scenario for sailing any sailboat. You could basically sail north or south, that's about it, and the channel couldn't have been more than 200' wide. Perhaps some areas were wider. So, I'm sailing along, motor boats passing me port and starboard, probably wondering what the heck I'm doing sailing down the channel. There were a few sailboats way bigger than mine, sails furled and cruising to who knows where passing me by. The winds that day weren't much more than 10 knots. I pretty much had to maintain a course of South, South West, with winds coming from the south west. I was in a tight close haul the whole time on my course. Then this gust of wind comes along that heels the boat over so far the boom is touching the waters surface. No time to release the main sheet, so I instinctively jammed the tiller to the port side to bring the bow into the wind. Of course, everything not tied down on the starboard side ended up on the port side, and that includes everything in the cabin as well. Didn't last long at all, so, without releasing any sheet lines I just gently pulled back on the tiller towards starboard and continued my very slow close haul sailing. For about 2 hours it was almost like a constant opportunity for a stall because I was sailing so close into the wind. It was quite a bit easier headed back north though.

I guess that just goes to show you, no matter how well you design a boat, it always comes down to the sailor and the wind. Been like that for thousands of years. But, if I'm to be honest, I think that's what I love about sailing. It's not predictable. Probably why so many of us sailors appreciate our time at sea. It's little like an extension of life on land but without the standard expectations that we all have to deal with on a daily basis. Sorry, didn't mean to get all philosophical and such. Having said that, I'll bet you all feel that way to some degree.

Have A Great Today My Sailing Friends!

 

Informative

 

Hey Folks,

Well, I finally got the Ace 14 in the water. As promised, without any modification to ballast. I had a chance to get away from my house building project and went Sebastian FL to visit my sister. I brought the Ace 14 with me in hopes of sailing in the Indian River. Before making the trip, I’d been watching the weather and knew there was going to be some high winds while I there. As matter of fact, 15MPH with gusts to 20MPH and coming out of the Northeast, which was perfect for that stretch of the river. Anyway, I had good plan, but it sure didn’t start off very well and went consistently down hill from there. One of the things I kept reminding myself on the way to Florida was to not forget to put in the drain plugs at the stern. I only took them out because of rain on the way down.

Anyway, that Sunday was a beautifully windy day and I took the Ace 14 to the main street boat launch. Got all gear in the boat, raised the mast, attached the boom, furled the sails appropriately, and backed the trailer down the ramp and into the water. Well, the first thing I noticed, was the stern of the boat was sinking and sinking fast. Yeap! All that reminding didn’t mean a flip at a that point. I had forgotten to replace the drain plugs. So, dashing into the water I went, then guiding the boat back onto trailer and hauling her in and secured the bow to the winch. Got back in my truck and pulled her out of the water. Took a good 20 minutes for all the water to drain out. Good thing it wasn’t a busy day at the launch site. In fact, there was hardly anyone around. So, get the plugs in place and backed her down the ramp again. Well, now she floating like she supposes to be. Unfortunately, because the boat is so light, after getting her off the trailer, the wind literally blew the boat up on to the ramp. Now, keep in mind, I’m by myself, which turned out to be a very bad idea.

Well, I finally got her around to the other side of the dock and moored her off. Parked the truck and got in the boat to prep for casting off. This is when the real fun started. The first thing I noticed when I got onboard, was whether I was on the port or starboard side, the boat would list from my weight about 8°-10°, maybe less. Okay, so I lower the trolling motor so as to be ready to take off into deeper waters. That’s when the rudder popped up and off the hinge pins. I’ll admit I had thought about the hinge pin situation a little, but evidently, not enough. Now, all this is going on while the boat is rocking from side to side in just 6" of wind chop. That one surprised me as well. So, I always carry a lot of extra rope/string on board. I tied that rudder down using the eye bolts on either side of the rudder, which is probably what they are for. Keeping the rudder in place! It is amazing how well one thinks they have thought of all contingencies and so much goes awry.

Okay, I’ve taken in the mooring lines, got the trolling motor engaged, and I’m off to deeper waters. At this point I’m saying to myself, “Well, that had to be the worst part, I should be good to go now” Nope, The next thing I notice is that it is almost impossible to get this boat moving even with the trolling motor on high. It should be noted though, that I was heading mostly up wind and it was blowing hard. I guess I was about 200 yards from the launch ramp when I said to myself, “Damn the torpedoes, I’m came here to sail, and by God I’m going do it.” So, I dropped anchor to get the boat stable into the wind so I could unfurl my jib first and test the wind. Not a chance folks. The anchor, which obviously needs to be a lot heavier, just dragged along the bottom as if it were a small fishing lead weight. It didn’t take long for the wind to blow the boat broadside to the wind. That’s when I felt the boat really start to heal to the starboard side. Now, keep in mind the sails are still furled and cinched down good. The wind literally blow me across the water like a leaf on a pond. I had very little control of the craft, but did discover that if I raised the rudder, which is a pop up rudder design, I could maintain more control of my heading.

Anyway, that’s when I realized sailing wasn’t going to happen today. There is no doubt in my mind, that if I have had raised a sail, the boat would have blown right over. At that point there was only one thing to do, and that was to head back to shore and load up the boat and forget about sailing in high winds. Well, even that was a bit of challenge. By that time the wind had change to more of a north wind. I had the wind on my starboard side the whole way back to the launch ramp and I had to keep my heading at 25°-30° into the wind just to stay on course. I was lucky enough that there was a very long dock about 30' from the launch ramp site, so headed to the lee side of that dock, knowing that I’d probably have a lot of trouble getting the boat to the ramp dock and attempting to moor her off myself. That actually didn’t go too badly. Once on the lee side of the long dock, turned the trolling motor on low, then carefully maneuvered the boat along side of the dock. Finally! Back to safety. I pulled the boat hand over hand along the dock and was able to get her into an 8' wide area between the long dock and the ramp dock. There was no place for the boat to go, so it was fairly easy to moor her off. Went to get my truck and trailer, loaded her up and went home. As they say, “It was a hell of a day at sea”. Needless to say I had several beers that evening

So, moral of the story. This boat is designed for light winds and only light winds, and I’m guessing that 5MPH is about the max you’d want to take her out in. Of course, the other option, is to add LOTS of ballast! Which brings me to the end my long story, which I’m very happy if you got through the whole thing as well. I’ll be making ballast adjustments to this boat. If I don’t, then I might as well sell it and get something that meets my expectations. I’ll admit that wouldn’t be too hard to do, but I’ve just got to try out my idea and see how right or wrong I am. My only concern is that I hope Mr. Arch Davis doesn’t think ill of me for what I’m about to do.

I will keep you all posted as to my progress by providing pictures of the work I’m planning on completing. I should mention though that I do have Mr. Davis’ blessing with adding 100 lbs of ballast (Removable) for both sides of the daggerboard trunk. That would be 50 lbs per side. Still, I believe a wing shaped ballast attached to the end of a “Newly” built daggerboard will add quite a bit of stability to the sailboat.

Thanks for listening,

Robert

 

You are not listening. Your boat, including the rigging, was not designed or built for the stresses of a ballasted keel. Some ballast tucked in beside the daggerboard trunk is a different matter.
You need to learn to sail that boat and develop realistic expectations.
Let's talk about dragging the anchor.
How deep was the water, how much rode did you have out, what kind and size of anchor, what were the bottom conditions?

 

Robert,

You are not hearing the advice given.

So, I would recommend you go ahead and buy a more suitable boat.
Learn to sail it, then go back and try your current boat.
If you still don't like it, sell it.

 

Learn to sail

One lesson you should take away from this is NEVER unfurl the jib at anchor. Doing so will ALWAYS turn you broadside to the wind.

 

Most anchors are going to be inadequate to hold with a sail up bigger than a riding sail. That's a lot to ask of an anchor.

Sounds like a frustrating time. I feel where you're at. Had a similar experience with my old Hobie 18 in 30 knot winds. Couldn't get the main set. Winds held the sail head ring off the mast hook at the top and it wouldn't catch. Only had a jib to work my way of the bridge I kept blowing down onto. Had to kedge out of the shallow over and over, as well. No sailing that day. 20 knots, the next day, all was great.

-Will

 

There is a big difference between a ballasted cruising boat and an un-ballasted dinghy.The smaller lighter boat is more exhilarating but at the same time more demanding of attention.A simple rudder retaining clip ought to be on the shopping list Rudder Retaining Clips - Hull Fittings - Hardware https://www.sailboats.co.uk/hardware/hull-fittings/retaining-clips .Maybe a visit to a sailing school for a weekend of learning about the way things need to be done would pay off.Then you could experience the dynamic type of sailing shown in post #34 when it gets breezy,or you could reef to suit the conditions if that’s the sort of sailing you prefer.Basic principles when hoisting sails are start aft and work forward,to keep the boat head to wind.It seems that a length of chain on the anchor warp might be a step forward and if that isn't sufficient,maybe a slightly larger anchor too.

As for sailing anything in 30 knots,you need to be fit and experienced, 20 ought to be feasible if you have half decent reactions and choose suitable sails.It may not be relaxing.