80 foot cargo harryproa

Aloha Rob. I see from your updates you are experimenting with using plastics and recycled materials for hull construction.

Are you familiar with the PlasTiki project from some years back?

It was a long distance sailing Cat built from plastic water bottles.

One of the neatest things I remember from the project was their development of a woven plastic fabric (like fiberglass) that they bonded to foam using only heat and a roll press.

These panels were used to construct the cabin and maybe the deck of I remember correctly.

This was long before recycled plastic material became a popular thing in a lot of eco friendly products like reusable shopping bags, clothing, etc..

At the time I looked into the cost of the woven material which I believe was being manufactured in Australia and it was extremely expensive, but things might have changed. Or perhaps you could process the material yourself and have the locals make filament and weave sheets of recycled plastic “cloth”.




Also on your ICE to electric outboard conversions, I would suggest using a much lighter outboard leg.

I think you could safely use a 4/5/6HP leg with a 10kW motor which would save you a lot of weight, or certainly a 8/9.9hp leg, but it’s sounds like you are going more in the direction of a POD style motor for easy tacking so it may be a moot point.

 

I am now, thanks. Fascinating project.

There are 2 huge and expensive problems with recycling waste plastic. Cleaning and sorting. The locals are excellent weavers, last week I learnt how they process and weave pandanus and harvest, process and weave a reed called koota. They would have no trouble with plastic and we would have no trouble extruding filaments. A lot of trouble cleaning and sorting it though. There are a couple of people on the harryproa chat group HarryProa groups.io Group https://groups.io/g/HarryProa who have done a lot of research into plastic as a hull material. It has a lot of promise, but we need to do a lot more testing before it is viable..

Thanks for the advice.
On the cargo proa I am putting a 6kw pod on the end of a pole mounted through the toybox. Not much point gpoing bigger as we hope to power it entirely from solar panels most of the time. The intended use is multidirectional steering (not tacking as the boat shunts). EPropulsion made me a pretty good offer, but the shipping is expensive and taking forever as it got stuck/lost/unshipped in Singapore. Maybe here in another month.
The possible water taxi replacement has a 10 kw/13 hp motor on a 40 hp Yamaha outboard carcass. The water taxis have 15 hp 2 strokes so, instead of getting sidetracked by the comparisons of power provided by electric vs internal combustion, I got near enough the same size. It is a substantial bit of kit, partly as it is water cooled to reduce the waterproofing problem. Has a 25mm shaft which we have to marry to the 15mm shaft on the outboard. The other problem was fitting it and the controller inside the cowling.

 

I may have mentioned this to you before in an email exchange, but the big problem with using an outboard leg for a conversion is you are forced to couple the electric motor to gear reduction which reduces max RPM in half so you are often unable to reach similar top speed as an ICE when operating at safe voltages. And the frustrating part is a motor like your 10kW motor has plenty of torque to spin a good size prop at low RPM, so there’s really no need for the reduction. If fact I would suggest running the biggest prop you can fit on the leg.

Unfortunately I have only identified a few outboard motors that had 1:1 bevel gearing in the lower leg, and it turns out they are highly collectible and sought after vintage outboards that are prized by speed boaters because they have the 1:1 gearing allowing for max speed.

There was a company that made sail drives that were like an outboard leg that could be coupled to an inboard or direct to an electric motor (Sillette Sonic drives) but from what I understand they are no longer in business, and their product was heavy and a bit crude.

On my 30’ Solar Electric Catamaran build, I plan to start with outboard legs with a 90 degree bevel box mounted atop in place of the power head that will couple to a pair of inboard electric motors so I can reduce transom weight and keep the motors and electronics inside the hulls where they will be well protected.

Eventually I plan to make my own 1:1 double 90 degree legs that I’ll swap in place of the outboard legs.

 

Sorry I missed your post, Sol.
The conversion is now done, (see next post) test results when we have them. The carcass is a 40 hp 2 stroke, I haven't checked the ratio but pretty sure it will be less than 1:1. Once it works, we will look at optimising it. The water taxi hull is less than 100 kgs, the panels and battery will add a bit, plus 10 passengers, so the motor will need to work over a wide range.
I used a Sonic leg for the windmill boat, turning a 1m diameter 4 bladed controllable pitch fibreglass prop I made. A bit clunky, but did the job.
Which lithium battery supplier do you recommend?

 

Update 8
Following on from the village women's canoe building workshop, we got requests for more workshops and chose the village of Dromuninuku, 30 kms east of the beautiful town of Savusavu, Vanua Levu. The cruising around there is fantastic, and almost free of cruising boats, despite Savusavu being a clearing port for Fiji.

Salote and 2 of the other graduates from the April workshop (Siana (Dromuninuku) and Lo (the neighbouring village of Naweni)) ran the workshop, producing a catamaran canoe in 9 x 4-6 hour days. Not bad for a group of women who did not know what foam, epoxy or fibreglass were when they started.

Sue (my wife) and I oversaw the workshop, but had little to contribute. We also got a small taste of village life, an experience neither of us will ever forget. Villagers don't have much in the way of possessions, but are genuinely happy, in stark contrast to many westerners I know.

The canoe building is a big deal, as shown by the attendees at the award ceremony. Representatives from the UNDP, the Provincial Council, the Ministries of Fishing and Health and CATD handed out certificates to the women, then watched as the boat was launched. The ceremony speeches emphasised the importance of small boats for fishing (neither village has any, they fish standing in the water inside the reef at high tide), the need for lightweight, easily built (no power tools, all right angles), rot proof boats (not plywood). One person did comment that this is what traditional boats would look like if foam, fibreglass and epoxy could be obtained from coconut trees!

On the first day, we took a stroll along the beach and I commented on the rubbish. Two days later, the women had organised clean ups at both villages and beaches, organised the Health Department to pick up the waste and set up an organisation called Women on Waste/WOW, whose mission is to do similar clean ups in all Fijian villages. The clean up was held half way through the workshop and all the village kids got involved. It was cool walking along the beach picking up plastic with 20 laughing kids helping. They remained working till the very end, which is more than some of the adults managed. Result was a couple of tonnes of waste collected. As importantly, they cajoled the Health Department into permanently providing 3 cu m rubbish bags and a truck to pick them up when they are full.

The day before we left for Dromuminuku, the students at CATD launched the prototype solar/electric water taxi. Another box boat, bult in a few weeks. While I was away, the students removed the petrol power head from a 40 hp outboard and are replacing it with a 10 kw (13 hp) watercooled brushless electric motor. The water taxis typically use a 15 hp motor to drive a 6m hardwood skiff. It will be interesting to compare performance. The roof of the prototype is 5 x 305W solar panels, the boat should be fuel free as long as the sun is shining.

I have been talking to a New Zealander who reckons what we are doing in Fiji is worth supporting and who, coincidentally, wants a C50 built. On the ferry on the way back from Dromuninuku we had a meeting with the UNDP about the next step in the project. The upshot was that they have provided support to set up a boat building operation, a classroom and a plastic recycling centre. Artists impression of the shed is (or soon will be) at Cargo Ferry Prototype – Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788

This is the first stage of the Innovation Hub being set up here at Nadave. The boat will be built by the graduates from the Sustainable Boat Building course we ran earlier this year as part of the co-operative approach that CATD uses to continue the education of ex students so they can, if they want to, start their own business. This is seen as key to the future security (economic and political) of the country. We plan to employ a foreman or two who will supervise and teach the students how to infuse composites and build boats to western standards. My role will be to make sure it runs smoothly. IF ANYONE IS, OR KNOWS OF SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE FOREMAN JOB, please let me know. harryproa@gmail.com

When the workers are not working on the C50, they will be building cargo proas, mini cargo proas, canoes, Harriettes and Eboats for local use. If the C50 build is satisfactory, more will follow.

How important is all this? 3 weeks have passed since the meeting on the ferry. Yesterday, the UN Assistant Secretary-General - Ms. Kanni Wignaraja and the Fijian Minister of Rural Affairs performed the ground breaking ceremony for the building. The shed will be as environmentally sustainable as we can make it as an example of what can/should be done. It will also be a zero waste boatbuilding shed. Fibreglass offcuts, used resin containers, gloves, wrapping materials, floor sweepings, etc etc will all be recycled on site into useful building material.

We intend to employ a videographer to "You Tube" the build and are discussing with The University of Sydney a carbon footprint analysis for the boat, shed and other CATD projects.

The zero waste aspect will be facilitated through funding it looks like we have received for equipment to turn unsorted, unwashed (the expensive parts of recycling) waste plastic into structurally reliable products, using a low temperature solar heater and equipment that will fit on the back of a small truck. We plan to take this around schools, villages and resorts to show that recycling is worth doing. There will also be a village suitable glass crusher to turn bottles into sand, reducing landfill and replacing sand on beaches and in concrete.

One of the things we learnt at Dromuninuku was that villagers are not messy people. They simply have nowhere to put their rubbish and can't afford to have it taken to the landfill. The first step is therefore to get recycling bins in villages, schools and resorts and demonstrate that they have value. We intend to produce the bins from waste plastic for bottles, cans, plastic and batteries, all of which now have value, making them worth collecting and recycling. Any money made from the recycling will be put towards arranging regular pick ups from these bins.

Fun times for all concerned.


Previous updates can be found at Cargo Ferry Prototype – Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788
More information on Harryproas generally is at Cargo Ferry Prototype – Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788
Discussion is at HarryProa groups.io Group https://groups.io/g/HarryProa. and Harryproa | Gold Coast QLD https://www.facebook.com/Harryproa/

 

Look forward to hearing how the conversion performs. Having the gear reduction on something like a water taxi makes more sense anyways since I would think safe maneuverability when loaded is far more important than planing speeds.

Battery-wise, for your application I would recommend LiFePo4 designs that are made up of individual sealed cell modules housed inside a waterproof case that is accessible. That way you can easily replace an individual cell or BMS which is the more likely component to fail.

In fact, I would recommend to anyone using Lithium for fleet use or relying upon for long distance voyaging that they consider keeping an extra BMS on hand as a spare. They are after all electronic circuit board component based products.

With that all said, take a look at the SOK brand. They make products with individual sealed cell modules housed in a plastic waterproof box with the BMS easily accessible. A battery like this is serviceable and much easier to troubleshoot using traditional methods. Also keep in mind that these batteries produce heat and in the tropics can sweat and accumulate condensation, so being able to inspect terminals and wiring and even add extra protection like conformal coatings is a big plus over a sealed unit that you have to tear apart if/when it has a problem.

Here is a link to their US site, although like most they are likely available direct from the manufacture.

FYI, I ordered direct from a company in China (EWT) who makes their own cells which is the most important component in my opinion, but their batteries are not constructed like the style I’m suggesting which makes them much harder to service should a problem arise.

https://www.us.sokbattery.com/products

Also with regard to flexible solar panel mounting, I have found multiwall polycarbonate sheeting works really well to help support the panels which will get more flexy when warm.

The polycarbonate will also allow the panels to cool better than other backing materials and it can be tortured into shape to create curves that will wick water so the panels stay clean, and it’s available in a variety of filtering colors, so unlike a solid structure which would create total shade, the polycarbonate allows some natural light. It’s most commonly used to build greenhouses here in the US but is becoming a popular material for modern buildings, carports, and hurricane protection for windows.

LEXAN™ THERMOCLEAR™ 15 - Amerilux International https://ameriluxinternational.com/our-products/multiwall-polycarbonate/lexan-thermoclear-15/

 

Thanks Sol,
I have emailed SOK.
The Lexan product is interesting, could have all sorts of uses, possibly even small boat lightweight hull and deck panels and big boat lightweight windows.

 

Great update. Terrific to read the progress.

Oh, bye the by, your main website needs to be adjusted to become "Secure" again. Cheers

 

UPDATE 9
Zero emission shipping things are starting to happen at CATD. Not least because we have usable boats in the water. One of the upshots of this is an increase in curious visitors, many of whom are doing interesting things, but need sustainable transport to make them happen.

We fitted the 5 x 300W solar panels to the Rewa water taxi prototype built by the students and powered by the outboard converted from petrol to electric. It worked a treat. The attached photo and video show it operating under 2 of the panels (600W, less than 1 horsepower), no battery. Top speed was 4 knots, with 2 people on board on a cloudy day. We are now waiting for MSAF approval prior to fitting batteries and taking it down to Rewa, a 6 mile open water trip, followed by 9 miles of river. Once it arrives, it will be used by as many drivers and passengers as possible and the feedback will be used to design the production version. These will be built by graduates of the Sustainable Boat Building programme in the new UN Innovation Hub at CATD.
25 years ago, I realised that kites are by far the best way to use the wind to power boats. Why? They are attached to the deck, so there is no heeling, they require minimal deck gear so they are far cheaper than conventional rigs and they can be flown high where the wind is stronger and more consistent. On the down side, (and what I and many others have spent a fair bit of that 25 years looking for solutions to), they are difficult to launch and retrieve on a small/medium boat, have the potential to unexpectedly quadruple their power output if not carefully controlled, are a nightmare if they fall in the water and have kms of small diameter string which tangles easily.

I spent a couple of days pre Xmas with old friend Trevor Jack on KitetiK, a 15m harryproa used for testing kite ideas. We used a kite handling system devised by Trevor and a 17 sq m/183 sq' (projected area) paraglider, modified to fly like a kite board traction kite. It took a while to get it set up, (once we mark the lines it will be set and forget) but then we could leave it and steer wherever we wanted to from hard on the wind to broad reach with no one touching the kite. Launching and retrieving was simple, using the mast to hoist and retrieve the kite. Once flying, all the loads were taken by a single strong point on the deck. This is a huge contrast to a sailing rig where the sail force acts half way up the mast and the loads to shape, control and support the sails are an order of magnitude higher than the force propelling the boat. As a bonus, the kite loads are lifting the boat, whereas conventional rigs act to heel the boat and depress the bows.

17 sq m is about 1/3rd of the designed sail area, not much more than a conventional storm rig. We managed 6 knots top speed in maybe 10 knots breeze (no white caps, despite wind against tide) shunting through 90 degrees upwind.

This performance and ease of handling was impressive enough to justify bringing Trevor and Gavin Mulvay (kite, electronics, EV's, and a whole bunch of other things guru) over to Fiji to try it on the tender for the cargo proa. Gav also cut and sewed a different type of kite which may be easier to use.

I had 2 weeks to finish and install a lee (actually a weather) board and a mast (one of the booms for the mini cargo proa crabclaw rig), make a paddle and set it up for steering. The mast's sole purpose is to launch and retrieve the kite. Once it is flying, the mast does nothing and is unloaded, or so we thought.

The guys arrived and we spent a couple of days sorting things out, doing some test runs, installing the bridles on the kite Gavin made and then set off for Leleuvia, 12.5 miles/20 kms away. A broad reach, barely 10 knots of breeze, with the paraglider/kite from KiteteK. Raising and lowering it was simple using the mast. Pull it up, release a string and it gently fills. How gently is controlled by the string release speed. Reverse the procedure to drop it. Shunting is a couple of seconds of pulling lightly on one line. Faster than the time it took to get the paddle from one end to the other.

Top speed was 9.6 knots, all went smoothly until the mast broke between the bearings. A function of the small bury (distance between the bearings) waves from the side and a spar not designed for the job. Nothing to do with the kite.

We spent 2 pleasant nights at Leleuvia and took the boat for a shallow water reach along the beach with a hand held 2.5 sq m/27 sq' kite. Got along at about jogging pace with not much leeboard down. I'd definitely carry one of these (maybe a bit bigger) as an emergency kite. We also test flew the kite Gavin had built (see attached). It needs tuning, but has potential. We jury rigged the mast with stays for the trip back. We jury rigged the mast with stays for the trip back. Repeat of 9+ knots top speed in similar breeze but the stay angle was insufficient, so we broke it again in the cross seas, nothing to do with the kite. We had a play with a couple of hand launched kites, then the breeze died, so we called for a tow to CATD. Gavin had to go home, so Trev and I rigged an inverted Y mast using bamboo. Much stiffer, but we managed to break this too. Definitely a function of the kite this time. We learnt a lot of lessons, not least that big kite techniques on small boats are difficult and kite selection is important. On the bright side, the problems with the masts will not apply to the cargo proa, so we are proceeding with the build of 2 large kites.

The tender is an 8.5m/27' catamaran with 400mm/16" wide, double ended hulls, flat bottom and no rocker. It weighs about 250 kgs/550 lbs and draws about 20mm (3/4") empty. A bit more than double both of these with us three and our gear onboard. The draft enabled us to skim over coral with the leeboard up and the steering oar out of the water to avoid having to go round outcrops. Shunting (couple of seconds and almost no effort) meant we could reverse immediately if it got too shallow. A definite plus in this part of the world. Due to the hull shape it is easy to steer by weight shift with the kite attachment point amidships on the lee deck, opposite the leeboard (actually a weatherboard). Move a person a metre or so and the steering paddle is not required. The hull shape also means that drag is unaffected by shape changes when weight is added.

We were given a 6 kw/8 hp electric outboard and battery in lieu of grant money owed. We fitted it on the tender and with 6 people on board did 5 knots using 1 kw (1.3hp) of power. Impressive enough that both Gav and Trev intend to build smaller versions of the tender. Four of us took it to Leleuvia for lunch, came back in the afternoon, had almost enough battery left to repeat the round trip. Petrol cost and emissions? Zero. Top speed was 11.2 knots, which implies the prop is a bit fine, we will test some others.
The students took the tender for a blast and managed to whack the hull with the outboard, at full speed (see pic). Due to the multiple bulkheads in the hulls, it didn't sink and because it is a flat panel construction, the fix was a 20 minute job with a backing plate and a couple of layers of glass.

The end result? We are not there yet with a solution to zero emissions small/medium boats, but we are a lot closer than we were with the conventional and wing rigs. The rig works well enough to buy a couple of kites for the cargo proa and see how it goes. There will have to be a lot of disadvantages to outweigh the advantages: no heeling loads, low cost, long life, easy handling (no winches, 2 finger control most of the time), light weight of the kite and mast, no deck gear, easily learnt basics, a simple problem solver mode and sailing with the bows lifted instead of being pushed down.

I'm modifying the cargo proa and will launch it when we have MSAF approval. The mods aren't simple as the boat is set up to do everything from the windward hull. Trev and Gav will be back with the new kites for the next chapter when it is launched .

Gavin had a small waterproof electric motor with a 3D printed housing which he uses to propel his 7m trailer sailor. We mounted it on a piece of wood and used it to push the tender, then dropped it in the water. A floating outboard! (see attached). This type of motor opens up some interesting possibilities for converting petrol outboards, powering canoes and building our own low cost outboards.

There were a few surplus to requirements solar panels available, so the students put them on the roof of the boat shed, Dels the sparky wired them up and we have Fiji's first solar electric boat recharging station. Not particularly elegant, but it will do the job.

We are organising Boat Master courses for the students and staff so they can take the boats out fishing and snorkelling. An impossibility with the outboard on the 8m CATD fibre due to the cost of fuel.

I spent a couple of pre Xmas days working with the plastic recycling people. Built 2 frisbees (see attached) from plastic bags and scrap dress material. The equipment to process unwashed and unsorted plastic is on it's way from China, we hope to be operational in April. The frisbees are part of the school program planned as the next step after we get set up at CATD.

Last week we attended the award ceremony for the UNDP grant awarded to CATD for a project to develop mud brick houses, similar to the ones built in Ba in 2005, which were the only buildings to survive cyclone Winston in 2017. One of the people involved in building them is now at CATD. There is potential to use the glass we are crushing as a sand substitute and perhaps a couple of uses of the recycled plastic in the construction of these houses. Interesting stuff.

For those who are curious about CATD and what it is about, have a look at this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeHIBdyqh8&feature=youtu.be

There are boat building workshops in the pipeline for Matuku Island (Lau group) and Taveuni, both beautiful places. I won't be running the workshops, but intend to visit and have a look around.

In Harryproa developments, www.harryproa.com is back on line, complete with some stunning new renderings Steinar has been working on. There are now 2, perhaps 3 C50's to be built here, once the Innovation Hub shed is complete. This is an ongoing process, with a lot of disparate elements that need to come together before construction can begin.

We are having a great time, with great people in a great place.

If you don't wish to receive these updates, please let me know.
Previous updates can be found at Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788
More information on Harryproas generally is at Harryproa http://harryproa.com/?p=3788
Discussion is at HarryProa groups.io Group https://groups.io/g/HarryProa. and Harryproa | Gold Coast QLD https://www.facebook.com/Harryproa/

 

Simply brilliant!
I just had a quick scan through your post above, and I am gobsmacked by what you have achieved, and are achieving now.
All in such complete contrast to the fast motor boat I saw in a marina here a few days ag0 - it is probably the first one here with four enormous outboard motors on the transom (there are a few here with three - and no doubt one will turn up with five in due course ) .
And I doubt that her owners have anywhere as much fun zooming about at umpteen knots as you do with all of your amazing Harry Proa projects on the go.

 

The latest update is attached as a pdf to make it easier to read.
https://tinyurl.com/5ae78v27

 

Enjoyed the update Rob.
I imagine your work on recycling/no waste/small useful community boats and boatbuilding is deeply satisfying on a personal level.
You're not going to get rich, but you're helping to make life better for a lot of lovely people. (I've worked with Fijians.)
And living there probably helps you understand that a good life doesn't require lots of money.
Good on you.

 

Sure is. And on a higher level as well. ie, the community.

Lovely people indeed. I'm more than rich enough, am working pretty hard on spending it all on fun projects before I'm too old to do so.

Absolutely.

Thanks.