Independent BLDC motors for two separate pontoons control

So I have been working on a boat design for about a decade now. Personal collapsible pontoon boat. Aluminum welded with HDPE pontoons, filled with closed cell foam, in 2 or 3 parts depending on if 1 man or 2 man. I have a unique design motor unlike anything else out there to be saved for another day. My concern right now is this that I need assistance on.

There will be two separate pontoons that will have a cavity similar to the Twin Troller boat motor housing. This will take advantage of the cavity creating the suction effect to provide stability to the boat. Mounted in the pontoon backside I wish to mount a motor. To be specific a BLDC high torque motor to simulate a trolling motor utilizing a Lithium 100AH 12 volt battery. These two motors need to be using a remote control and be able to go forward-reverse-left and right. Speed is not the issue so much as efficient power management, so a day on the water can be enjoyed fishing local lakes. I have been looking at Planetary gear motors. The idea is to have something that has good torque from a sitting position with a maximum of about 600 pounds to be pushed with a top speed around 7-10 MPH cruising if possible. For reference on the system hoping to create it would be something like this link. Those motors however are underpowered to go against current with weight.

https://www.amazon.com/APISQUEEN-Un...8338659&sprefix=apisqueen,aps,102&sr=8-1&th=1

Any ideas on these points?

1. Gear Ratio
2. RPM's
3. ESC
4. Remote
5. Type of motor but brushless for water stability since I will need to pot and create a good water tight container.

Thanks in advance.

 

I would avoid using planetary gears. They are noisy and will decrease efficiency, use brushless direct instead.

If efficiency is important and you would like to be able to use common reasonably priced motors, you should consider upping your voltage.

If you up the voltage, you can build around small powerful brushless motors that will have a chance surviving in a marine/boat environment like those used/found in other electric vehicles like EBikes, Foilboards, Scooters, One Wheels, ESkateboards, etc..

Since it’s a pontoon with one motor behind each, you can use independent forward and reverse thrust to steer which will simplify your drive line.

To achieve 10MPH (provided you have an efficient hull shape) you will need something in the 2000W + range.

That’s Output power to the prop.

So depending on how efficient the motor and ESC, something in the 3-4Kw size range (per motor) and something capable of around 2000RPM.

Hers an example. This company has a good reputation. There are a lot of options out there now.

3 KW BLDC Motor Liquid Cooled - Golden Motor North America https://goldenmotor.bike/product/72-volt-3kw-bldc-motor-liquid-cooled/

Don’t cheap out on the ESC. Buy something known to pair well, or something with extra headroom.

 

@SolGato I am pleasantly surprised at the cost of those motors. Of course that is but part of the picture.

Would you mind giving a quick rundown on how you would approach the following issues please? I have been pondering this topic for a small cruising style sailing cat with an outboard in a well.

• Motor mounting
• Sealing
• Propeller mounting
• Propeller selection and acquisition

 

On the cheap side, these motors are now flooding the market. DIYers have been putting them to the test on various projects with some success, although being stranded on the side of a road due to failure is different than on the water. Personally I would spend the money on quality components if long term use is intended.

https://www.amazon.com/Brushless-Co...d8514494e0073cf4bddbfda46112ac3f&gad_source=1

C. Dog -

If you are already setup for an outboard, the easiest thing to do would be to convert a lightweight ICE to electric by removing the motor head and installing a motor like the Golden I posted previously by making a motor mounting plate and coupling it directly to the motor shaft.

Then mount the ESC above it and use the lower unit’s water pump for cooling or better yet build a closed cooling system.

Then build or buy yourself a suitable battery and place it where ever makes the most sense.

This way you don’t need to start from scratch or redesign a lot of the major stuff, and you still retain the tilt and trim features of the motor, and can still easily remove it from the boat if needed.

Lots of videos on YouTube of these types of conversions.

 

Thank you very much for the assistance. I will use this advice to continue researching.

 

I missed your reference about the Twin Troller motor design.

I thought you wanted to mount the motors inboard with a shaft to prop, but now see that what you are after is Pod motors.

In that case, you can either use standard trolling style motors or purchase Pod motors to mount inside those ducts.

Take a look at EPropulsions Navy Pod motors for example or NewPort Vessels NK300 or Caroute N300.

You can also use just about any trolling style motor by removing the tiller head, cutting down the shaft, and relocating the controls.

Be prepared to step up to 36-48V for these systems.

If however a lower top speed would work for you (6-7MPH), you could probably get away with less powerful motors and a voltage as low as 12/24V.

As a point of reference my solar electric cat can cruise at 8MPH using two 24V 1.5kW brushless motors. The hull shape is very efficient as are the motors and controllers, and I have optimized performance in a number of ways allowing me to achieve good speed considering total power at the props is only 2000W.

 

Hello again. Just a back story to help fill the gap on desired end result. What follows is an excerpt from my business plan and a picture of the possible end result. Production on first full size model will be this fall. I am also starting to come around as I do more research that the 6-7 range is going to be the end result. I have an idea on a motor that does not exist currently that is a hybrid brushless and water jet that I am still developing that would work great in these boats.

While growing up as a kid and teenager I spent my summers on a local campground with my grandparents. They would load up their RV and go park it for a weekend at a campground that sat on a 50 acre lake. My Grandpa and I would take his Jon boat down to the lake and I would have the best days I can remember with him on that lake. June 2015 I went back to that lake taking my wife there for the first time. The problem was that after all these years I still did not own a boat of my own. After a couple of days of shore fishing and not catching anything I rented a Jon boat on the lake. The problem was that it did not come with a motor and I did not own one. So I used oars in the sweltering heat. At the end of the day I was sore and sun burnt but my wife and I had caught 15 nice sized blue gills. The theory was proven yet again, you have to go where the fish are. My wife had a great time on the water and I knew then I had to find a better way for us to fish.

That day I went home and started trying to find a solution. My situation however hit me with the usual reality check. I did not own a truck or a vehicle that could tow anything. So any boat that required a trailer was out of the question. We did not have a great deal of money so my budget really only lent itself to around $1,500 or less. I was also faced with the fact that we rented and I would not be able to just store a big boat even if I could tow it.

WHO ARE OUR CUSTOMERS?

#1. Our first target customer would be the most obvious. Any person that wanted a small, one or two person boat that could be easily handled and yet provided them with tons of options. This could be most any age group.

#2. Any person that like myself and my wife that has limited options based on income, transporting, and storage. Even though our boats are not as cheap as the Wal Mart and Cabelas plastic and Aluminum boats we are offering a solid platform that is of the best quality.

#3. RV and camping travelers. If you think about it this one area alone is the bright spot for our product. Retired and non retired folks that like to travel the country hitting campgrounds usually like to fish also. The problem most of them face is they can only tow a vehicle behind their RV's if they are using an RV that is one unit. Boats are just a luxury that most do not have an option for. Our system can easily fit into the RV or a storage bin and give them choices they never had before. The great thing also is that these people will usually also have the expendable money to purchase our boats and accessories.

#4. This last customer is an idea I have toyed with for a long time also. Search and Rescue, FEMA, and Fire departments. To name a few. Because the boats break down and have mobile motors that fit within the pontoons. A Fire Department could carry a few of these in trucks. Get on site of a flooded area, quickly assemble a 2 person boat that I actually expect will be capable of holding 3 people comfortably and safely. Then go find their targets. Because of the stable platform, portability and relatively low costs this would be a great asset for departments beyond inflatable boats or trying to acquire local boats in a time of need. Since our boats will have collapsible ladders, getting in and out of our pontoons would be much easier than trying to get in and out of a regular boat.

 

Not to belittle your design, but from the one rendering provided, your boat looks like it would be unstable. This is one of the reasons most small boats are low to the water.

One way you could improve this is if you moved the floats further apart (increase the beam) by angling your now vertical supports so the weight on deck is being supported between the floats. They could even double as a functional step/swim step. The extra beam width will make the boat much more stable with less worry about where weight is distributed.

With the way it is now, if one passenger got up and shifted their weight while underway, it would likely affect steering because one float might submerge more than the other causing more drag from the additional wetted surface area. The smaller and lighter the boat, the more sensitive it is to things like weight displacement and shifting, wind, current, etc..

Also keep in mind the taller the boat and the more surface area, the more windage which will decrease efficiency and maneuverability in wind.

Otherwise I think the basic concept (a mini pontoon patio Jon boat) that disassembles and packs away has merit.

There are quite a few boats in this space that don’t disassemble, some aimed at the rental fleet industry, and a few designs that use dual electric motors and a joystick to steer and propel the vessel.

And of course kayaks with electric motors and pedal drives are quite popular as well as inflatables.

 

Yes sir understood. That is also why I referred to the Twin Troller. The pontoons are going to have a mini bilge pump built in, and channels similar to the Twin Troller to allow for that suction effect on each pontoon. This will help stabilize the platform as a whole. I am also working on an angled pontoon base frame that goes out more than just a straight up and down, to spread out the weight and roll. All to be developed in the build out process. This is also a concept picture I rendered along with others. The signage along the outside walls is nothing more than your corrugated plastic like used in real estate signs. This is where the Seahorse logo comes into play. Seahorse's can adapt and come in a wide range of colors. These boats will be totally customizable and the panels can be easily taken off if it is a windy day, and pushing the boat around. This allows the owners to make their boat look like anything they want. The whole concept is based on the fact that most people want stability, and reassurance their boat will not collapse under stress. My wife will not get in a kayak, canoe or inflatable. Even our fiberglass 17' boat she has issues with, but not a jon boat which is odd. She wants a bigger pontoon boat so she can walk around and not worry. We live in Florida so her ideas on alligators are pretty severe. The boats are held together in a unique fashion that requires no tools. I worked for 3 years on the patent, but did not pay an attorney to do so due to cost, so I am still sitting on that nugget of info. Patent office is a PITA. I have even played with a 3rd pontoon add if it allowed for smaller pontoons and a more stable base. The plans are for a 1 and 2 man option that disassemble and a 3rd (4) man version that is a stay in place pontoon boat that is geared towards just fishing. Not going past that already enough pontoon boat makers out there. This will be a good lakes, rivers and flats boat. I am also going to push a mini boat fishing tournament cycle in conjunction with the bass tour. A one man boat tournament that these boats and kayaks can compete in. Imagine rolling up on a lake with 50 of these boats out there with all the sponsors on the boat walls? Then when done pull out a new set of walls and get a whole new look. They are also meant to store away in a couple rolling bags disassembled.